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1967 Belgian GP .... as seen on period specialised press


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#51 pioujd428

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 10:58 PM

I can't view them either. Says I don't have permission.

Would really like to it all sounds like an interesting read.

Edited by pioujd428, 27 November 2014 - 10:59 PM.


#52 MECH

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 11:21 AM

You should be able to view and download the items now.
Let me know if not :)

Cheers,

Martin


#53 M Needforspeed

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 12:45 PM

Thank you for this, Martin

#54 davef

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 01:56 PM

Thank you MECH ! :bouncing2:

Now hopefully now pioujd 428 & michkov return to view Michel's spectacular scans ! :applause:
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#55 Michkov

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 10:32 PM

No errors for me now, cheers MECH

#56 M Needforspeed

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 08:25 AM

in the nineties, before Grand Prix Legends release, Supercars ,a british mag published on the back pages, some reviews of Grand Prix races.

  Is it a  premonition of what had to happen ?

The fact remain that 1967 GP races had their preference :  Monaco,Zandvoort,Spa, Silverstone and Monza have been reviewed with usually images in color not seen on period books and mags.

Stewart BRM right front wheel that's block under braking for La Source, is an indication of the track surface irregularity . I remember Duncan took the info !

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Edited by M Needforspeed, 02 December 2014 - 04:40 AM.


#57 gliebzeit

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 10:10 AM

Thank you, Michel, for your exhaustive search to find these 'rare' publications!  Great historical meaning here.  :)
Greg

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#58 francesco

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 03:40 AM

Since i'm not involved in the project ,so i can see nothing,my question is:but at which point is the new Spa67?

#59 M Needforspeed

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 04:39 AM

Francesco,

don't tell us that you can't see the images ?

for the project, alls the final Spa67 versions have been tested online and off line . Read me files are done.

#60 francesco

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 07:26 AM

Quote

don't tell us that you can't see the images ?
No,i see the immages but i know nothing about the development of the new track.I'm interested to know if the releasing is imminent or not.

#61 M Needforspeed

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 06:21 PM

Now, crossing the atlantic,with  Sports Car graphic  

this monthly mag, was more oriented to cover "european"  style road races than american speedway events ;

one thing I learnt by reading some us motor racing mags . I believed wrongly as an european, that road racing wasn' t popular in the US, but if we look at the calendar, there was probably more races held there ( 60's) than in our old countries ( Two WSC rounds,  Can Am, USRRC , Trans Am , Formula A/B/C , countless SCCA regional and local races, and even some USAC championship trail rounds at Mont Tremblant, Riverside and Mosport)

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Edited by M Needforspeed, 05 December 2014 - 06:43 PM.


#62 davef

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 08:39 PM

M Needforspeed, on 05 December 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

one thing I learnt by reading some us motor racing mags . I believed wrongly as an european, that road racing wasn' t popular in the US, but if we look at the calendar, there was probably more races held there ( 60's) than in our old countries ( Two WSC rounds,  Can Am, USRRC , Trans Am , Formula A/B/C , countless SCCA regional and local races, and even some USAC championship trail rounds at Mont Tremblant, Riverside and Mosport)

Michel.

Road & Track monthly provided upcoming international racing events scheduled. Here's an example from
August 1967 :)

Attached File  R & T Time & Place August 1967.JPG   219.74K   18 downloads
Dave

#63 pioujd428

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 09:23 PM

Thanks Michel and Mech great reads.

Does anyone know for the race if Spence ran on the Dunlops he used in practice or Goodyears like Stewart? Putting together a carset with the BRM's swapping tires every race makes it quite a bit more complicated. :biggrin:

Also interesting how BRM brought 3 P261's along for Spa as well. It seems to me that Irwin had the usual orange nose instead of the Reg Parnell red.

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#64 M Needforspeed

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 02:00 PM

Chris,

Stewart :

The BRM P 261 number 12, chassis 2616  was tested by Stewart both with Dunlop and Good Year .Thks to this info, we found some correct 67 adverts for Stavelot !

Then, Stewart switched race numbers 12 then 14 for practice with his P 83 H 16 chassis 8303 .Wearing the number 12, he tested again both Good Year and Dunlop.

Spence :

Spence tried his P 261 chassis 2614 but with the number 14 .

  The team didnt think they wld race the two P 83, but they where convinced to do it, and the 8302 chassis was then used by Spence.When he did, they put the number 12 on it ! Stewart getting the 14 ...

For the race, Spence apparently followed Stewart advice, and used Good Year. Jabby Crombac on the Sport Auto  report on page 2, don't give any info about Spence tyres.You have  a pic with G Y tyres.

Irwin :

  Chris Irwin used chassis 2614, for practice and raceday ,  but now with the number 17 .This chassis was a work car, and had the dayglo orange, but I see all those nose rather red. It can be confusing if we look at BW pics, because it looks a pale grey, a light tone..
He tested  special Dunlop compound during practice and for its short lived race.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the confusion seemed easy, as they used 3 numbers , but only two Tasman chassis where in fact brought to Spa track.

They where asked to change the car numbers by the promoters, to increase the race program sales ! So they used 3 for the H 16 as well !

Tim Parnell used on loan the 2614 chassis for Irwin, all the season, but it wasn't a Parnell car . The car was owned by the work team  . When Irwin/Atwood raced the P 261 2615 for the Tasman races, it was a work team management of the Bernard White car.
I think that is on the 2615 that they sometimes put a red nose, for the 67 Tasman races.

  the only certain proof Parnell deeper red nose was used for 67 season, is Courage 2614 at Monaco

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Edited by M Needforspeed, 07 December 2014 - 04:37 PM.


#65 gliebzeit

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 02:49 PM

Michel, excellent research, my friend!  :)
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#66 M Needforspeed

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 02:56 PM

davef, on 05 December 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

Michel.

Road & Track monthly provided upcoming international racing events scheduled. Here's an example from
August 1967 :)  

the list of the SCCA national or regional is big ! thks for this doc, Dave .

Edited by M Needforspeed, 07 December 2014 - 03:25 PM.


#67 M Needforspeed

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 02:58 PM

gliebzeit, on 07 December 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

Michel, excellent research, my friend!  :)

suddenly,  I feel exhausted . Research on BRMs is as tricky :harumph:   as was their H 16 engine . Merci mon ami Greg .


Chris,

   The next step in Grand Prix Legends improvement is a tool  to switch AI's car numbers for each race !!  :wink8:

pioujd428, on 06 December 2014 - 09:23 PM, said:

T
Does anyone know for the race if Spence ran on the Dunlops he used in practice or Goodyears like Stewart? Putting together a carset with the BRM's swapping tires every race makes it quite a bit more complicated. :biggrin:


this time, you are lucky, but your plan for a new 67 carset with Extra slots is again gaining points.Here, the trojan is Irwin / P 261/ Dunlops

Edited by M Needforspeed, 07 December 2014 - 03:24 PM.


#68 pioujd428

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 02:11 AM

Thanks for all your research mate much appreciated. :thumbup: I agree the BRM's are very hard to find complete information on.

I will add some extra driver.inis into the current 67-Extra mod for Spa practice. So everyone can see what Spence and Stewart should have looked like testing the P261's. :grin:

#69 davef

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 08:36 PM

M Needforspeed, on 20 November 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

davef, on 20 November 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

This race is missing from my R&T collection. I aim to buy the issues that my dad had, that over the years became lost. This is next on my list. :)

Here is an article on the winning car.
http://gplr.srmz.net...?showtopic=3441

hello Dave,

I wanted to ask you at SRMZ, as you uploaded many Road and Track.It can be easily found on Ebay, I am afraid I haven't the issue covering the Belgian GP.

Well it will be a longer wait for me. My source for the September 1967 issue of R & T is out of stock. This has the Dutch & Belgian GP reports. :cry:

So I purchased for X-Mas the November 1967 issue with the German & Canadian GP reports. :)
Dave

#70 M Needforspeed

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 02:46 PM

TvO, on 20 November 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:

As far as the BRM's go, it's Stewart in the Owen BRM P83 with yellow nose, Spence in the BRM P83 with red nose (see Powerslide mag), Irwin in a BRM P261, red nose?

Tommie,

if Stewart , who didn't switch between the P 83 chassis, had a dayglo "orange" (yellow ?? )  that is in fact closer to a red tone when he practised with number 12 ,  for the raceday ( number 14 ) , he got the same nose color than the P 83 of Spence.

pioujd428, on 08 December 2014 - 02:11 AM, said:

Thanks for all your research mate much appreciated. :thumbup: I agree the BRM's are very hard to find complete information on.

I will add some extra driver.inis into the current 67-Extra mod for Spa practice. So everyone can see what Spence and Stewart should have looked like testing the P261's. :grin:

Pioujd ( Chris ) , you are correct with the Spa carset colors for the two P 83s.

Oh, you go to a never ending progress with those drivers inis. Thks a lot.

Edited by M Needforspeed, 21 December 2014 - 03:11 PM.


#71 TvO

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 05:29 PM

Really? At the powerslide picture of the start you see Stewart with a yellow nose, and Spence with a darker nose, so presumably red. There was a color picture of Irwin in the P261 with a yellow nose, so it looks like only Spence ran a red nosecone on race day.

#72 M Needforspeed

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 05:09 AM

... Raceday : no differences.And Irwin P 261 nose looks to have the same kind of red.

  I have others pics where Stewart apparently got a lighter nose, but not surprisingly, they are all BW.

The way the light reflects on the camera lenses on dayglos skins and the BW will show a lighter or darker grey tone.
For every race , when I look at the BRM BW pics, the way the grey tone of BRMs nose is rendered is sometimes different.
Some in BW for Spence, that 's as clear as Stewart on Powerslide pic.

  Tommie, I have others pics from Joe Honda books  for the BRM at Spa and other races.


We have projected what we saw for the 1966 season regarding BRM noses colors, for the 1967 season . That's why we are always searching for differences. But, not saying that they weren't some, but very tiny for some 67 races.

Tommie, I am open to discuss on this captivating subject !

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Edited by M Needforspeed, 22 December 2014 - 05:27 AM.


#73 pioujd428

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 05:24 AM

Haha these darn BRM's :wall: Chassis, tires, nose colour.

That's proof there I think that Spence used the orange nose at Spa.

You are so good with your research Michel maybe it's worth starting a topic about the BRM's for some more races?

For example I have the Joe Honda Pictorial's and it looks to me like Irwin was on Goodyears at Silverstone the same as Hobbs?

Edited by pioujd428, 22 December 2014 - 05:27 AM.


#74 M Needforspeed

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 05:33 AM

Chris,

...sorry, but what do you means by orange nose ? There must be some misinterpretation on the color we see.on the Spence pic, I see a red tone. My problem is that I don't see orange for any pic on this thread.

Wld you believe, by this BW pic, that seen in color, it is plain red ? I wldn't !

in BW, the contrast between the skin and the rounded nose is very high .Maybe we think it must be pale, not red. But when in color...

Spence Powerslide pic on first page, then, wld give arguments for a much darker color.But we have only one pic, it is rendered like this.

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Edited by M Needforspeed, 22 December 2014 - 05:46 AM.


#75 pioujd428

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 05:39 AM

By orange I mean the normal BRM orange that we have now.