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2 'simple' track editing questions


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#1 PTRACER

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Posted 26 December 2020 - 12:27 PM

Having a break from physics editing to give track-making a go...

I just have two questions.

1. Is this an acceptable way to change the shape of a corner in GPL TRK? Obviously the inside curve is no longer smooth, so is there a "proper" way to do it?

Attached File  mytrack.jpg   55.01K   14 downloads


2. I copied the Silverstone horiz.3do file, along with the 10 or 11 mips, to my track directory. The result "Could Not Load Track". If I delete the horizons, my track works again. Do I need to do something special to get pre-made horizons to work?


Thanks!

#2 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 26 December 2020 - 01:03 PM

Hey, PT!  :)

You may have missed a mip in that horiz.3do callup.  Sometimes, a 'ground.mip' is included in the file listing and without it, you're dead in the water.  Try to open the 3do and have a look at the string of mips required.  Just a guess, of course.

#3 PTRACER

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Posted 26 December 2020 - 02:32 PM

View PostManfred Cubenoggin, on 26 December 2020 - 01:03 PM, said:

Hey, PT!  :)

You may have missed a mip in that horiz.3do callup.  Sometimes, a 'ground.mip' is included in the file listing and without it, you're dead in the water.  Try to open the 3do and have a look at the string of mips required.  Just a guess, of course.

Hey that is a good call! I'll see if there is a missing MIP somewhere :) Which of the apps should I use to open the 3DO?

#4 ginetto

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Posted 26 December 2020 - 03:51 PM

View PostPTRACER, on 26 December 2020 - 12:27 PM, said:

Having a break from physics editing to give track-making a go...

I just have two questions.

1. Is this an acceptable way to change the shape of a corner in GPL TRK? Obviously the inside curve is no longer smooth, so is there a "proper" way to do it?

Attachment mytrack.jpg


2. I copied the Silverstone horiz.3do file, along with the 10 or 11 mips, to my track directory. The result "Could Not Load Track". If I delete the horizons, my track works again. Do I need to do something special to get pre-made horizons to work?


Thanks!
For the horizon, it usually have sky.mip and ground.mip too :)

For the turn shape in a GTK; that is good only if you have a flat area there.
The elevations and cambers are given by traces (those blue lines in the attached pics - from Monza 67)) that run parallel to the center line and cut the whole area laterally so you have walls that go straight from one trace to the other.
Attached File  pic001.jpg   98.48K   8 downloadsAttached File  pic002.jpg   130.52K   6 downloads
Usually you position the traces so you can have curbs between asphalt and grass and when you make a turn as you did in your example cannot be other than on a flat portion of the track.
Did I explained myself? Hm, don't think so... :unsure:
There was a better explanation in the track creation I think to remember; if you have it, please take a look there.

Done these tracks and working on others.


#5 PTRACER

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Posted 26 December 2020 - 11:41 PM

View Postginetto, on 26 December 2020 - 03:51 PM, said:

Usually you position the traces so you can have curbs between asphalt and grass and when you make a turn as you did in your example cannot be other than on a flat portion of the track.
Did I explained myself? Hm, don't think so... :unsure:
There was a better explanation in the track creation I think to remember; if you have it, please take a look there.

The track I am creating is pretty flat ;)

Attached File  mytrac2.jpg   203.67K   7 downloads

When I was creating the GTK I found it was impossible to find a 'centreline' for some corners. So I did the best I could and planned to 'stretch' the track in GPL Trk. Perhaps it would be better to just add additional traces rather than stretch the actual racing surface. Or go back to GTK Maker and do it properly...

#6 ginetto

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Posted 27 December 2020 - 05:31 AM

In those cases, you should stretch the outside of the turn instead of the inside and keep the centerline at the same distance from the inside of the turns. As you can see at Parabolica in my first picture above.
Attached File  centerline option.jpg   55.42K   5 downloads

Silverstone ? :rolleyes:
Border Reiver wrote this:

Quote

...Out of interest, what is the altitude change at Silverstone between Club, which I think is the lowest point to Copse which is the highest? You'd say that Silverstone is flat, but having walked around the whole track back in the good old days before they modified the track there, you can certainly feel the climb back up from Club to the pits.
and maddog:

Quote

A word to use here is, undulation.  Satellite photos will not show these, where track photos will.  These add to the workload, but add to the realism, and visual stimulus.  At Silverstone, there was a noticeable rise from Abbey curve, up under the bridge towards Woodcote.

This is the profile of the traces for silver Papy track (white lines are left and right limits of the asphalt; when they diverge, there is camber) I have no idea if they are spot on or not though. :unsure:
Attached File  papy.jpg   102.69K   7 downloads

Done these tracks and working on others.


#7 PTRACER

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Posted 27 December 2020 - 05:50 PM

View Postginetto, on 27 December 2020 - 05:31 AM, said:

In those cases, you should stretch the outside of the turn instead of the inside and keep the centerline at the same distance from the inside of the turns. As you can see at Parabolica in my first picture above.
Attachment centerline option.jpg

Silverstone ? :rolleyes:
Border Reiver wrote this:

Quote

...Out of interest, what is the altitude change at Silverstone between Club, which I think is the lowest point to Copse which is the highest? You'd say that Silverstone is flat, but having walked around the whole track back in the good old days before they modified the track there, you can certainly feel the climb back up from Club to the pits.
and maddog:

Quote

A word to use here is, undulation.  Satellite photos will not show these, where track photos will.  These add to the workload, but add to the realism, and visual stimulus.  At Silverstone, there was a noticeable rise from Abbey curve, up under the bridge towards Woodcote.

This is the profile of the traces for silver Papy track (white lines are left and right limits of the asphalt; when they diverge, there is camber) I have no idea if they are spot on or not though. :unsure:
Attached File  papy.jpg   102.69K   7 downloads

Yes, just as Kyalami has the one or two minor errors, so does Silverstone. Anyway, it seems a very "basic" track for me to try my hand at track editing since there are a ton of models already out there.

I have a height map for Silverstone here. It rises to 153.8m under the bridge and falls to 149m just before Stowe.
https://www.old-maps...42598/12/100954

#8 Stefan Roess

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Posted 27 December 2020 - 05:59 PM

View PostPTRACER, on 26 December 2020 - 12:27 PM, said:

Having a break from physics editing to give track-making a go...

Not many GPL editing guys would call this a break. :eek: :D

#9 PTRACER

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 08:36 AM

View PostStefan Roess, on 27 December 2020 - 05:59 PM, said:

View PostPTRACER, on 26 December 2020 - 12:27 PM, said:

Having a break from physics editing to give track-making a go...

Not many GPL editing guys would call this a break. :eek: :D

I am really enjoying it, this doesn't seem like work!!! I even re-made my GTK, it is considerably more accurate than before and should be within 1-2 metres of the real track.

One additional question - are traces the only way to create raised kerbs and earth banks, like those seen alongside the track at Silverstone and at Mexico City?

Edited by PTRACER, 29 December 2020 - 08:37 AM.


#10 ginetto

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 10:45 AM

Like Silverstone yes, you need at least 2 traces for it, one at the beginning and one at the end of the banking.
Another way to make them is seen at Goodwood; where they used Vertical wall instead
and I also made a few 3Dobjects at Woodcote exit in the newer 65 version to make the sand bankings there. :)

Done these tracks and working on others.


#11 PTRACER

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 10:54 AM

View Postginetto, on 29 December 2020 - 10:45 AM, said:

Like Silverstone yes, you need at least 2 traces for it, one at the beginning and one at the end of the banking.
Another way to make them is seen at Goodwood; where they used Vertical wall instead
and I also made a few 3Dobjects at Woodcote exit in the newer 65 version to make the sand bankings there. :)

Does that mean the the banking must always be the same distance from the centre line? And the same with the raised kerbs?


Very, very early days yet, but the GTK is well on its way! I am so pleased to find the AI can start on a corner. I have also almost finalised the altitudes, after that I will work on the details like the small walls inside the corners and the runways, before adding the trackside objects. I think the only thing that concerns me is the bridge over the track after Abbey.

Attached File  gpl467 2020-12-30 01-42-59-40.jpg   109.58K   11 downloads

#12 ginetto

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 11:00 AM

View PostPTRACER, on 29 December 2020 - 10:54 AM, said:

Does that mean the the banking must always be the same distance from the centre line? And the same with the raised kerbs?

Yes; if you want bankings or kerbs at  different distances, you need to use more traces (this is done very frequently)  but a trace itself is always parallel to the centerline.

Done these tracks and working on others.


#13 PTRACER

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Posted 29 December 2020 - 11:40 AM

View Postginetto, on 29 December 2020 - 11:00 AM, said:

View PostPTRACER, on 29 December 2020 - 10:54 AM, said:

Does that mean the the banking must always be the same distance from the centre line? And the same with the raised kerbs?

Yes; if you want bankings or kerbs at  different distances, you need to use more traces (this is done very frequently)  but a trace itself is always parallel to the centerline.

If the trace limit is 16 then I must be careful. I don't think I will need all 16 traces for Silverstone.