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Bugatti 1967 French Gp Fiftieth Anniversary Retrospective


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#1 M Needforspeed

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:39 AM

posted at SRMZ and here


For those who plan to go to Le Mans 24 Hours / or Le Mans Classic this year, there is a commemorative expo to mark the fiftieth anniversary of the event . Now, on display at the track museum, a retrospective of the 1967 French GP

A  Brabham BT 24 ( winner of the race ), BRM P 115, Cooper Maserati T 81 and Lotus 49 , and the Matra MS6 F3 winner of the F3 race ,will be there.

Expo can be seen now, and will close on August 31th.

http://www.motorlege...ures/15904.html


and another homage paid to GPL !

( remark: un RL, Bonnier Cooper Maserati didn't appear, and the P 115 was only seen in the garage)



Roman, maybe  you 'll go at Le Mans this year ?

Edited by M Needforspeed, 18 May 2017 - 05:41 AM.


#2 sky

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 07:06 AM

Oh man, I want to go. Any maybe I will. At this year's Techno Classica in Essen, the Nurburgring team
made a good case for attending the 90th anniversary of the "Ring". They had a 908 on display (which
I couldn't pass, so got suckered into a long talk). That happens to be the same weekend as Le Mans.
I was thinking of maybe doing a day at the Ring and the continue on West via Paris to Le Mans as I'm
in love with both of them.

Now seeing that they have the '49, the Braby, the BRM and the Cooper at Le Mans.. I think it has been
decided, that Le Mans is ON! It will be my first 1:1 with a '49 and I will need to have all the details I can
get for my cockpit project which is currently only missing a separate temperature gauge. The electronics
are there and I need to try and test them this weekend.

Where else would you have the opportunity of seeing 4 of our 7 beloved 1967 F1 cars in one place?
Note to self: Make sure you have enough memory cards along for the ride, make sure the camera is
fully charged...:D

#3 M Needforspeed

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 02:45 PM

I have been disorganized and late to answer, Roman .

Hope you are on the start to go at Le Mans with alls your digital tools ready.  


Le Mans is nearer from where your live than me .Take a chance to go there before end of August, if you can 't make it for the 24 hours.

IF it is for a Lotus 49 real period cockpit gauge, you can get the idea by a projection of dimensions, isn' it ?

#4 sky

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 12:07 PM

Hi Michel,

as for dimensions... I have some original Smiths gauges, so from those I can, using photoshop or whatever,
guesstimate the sizes of other parts of the dashboard. As you can see in the attached pic, I have plenty of
parts at the ready, but I am thinking of taking a tape measure along for the ride - just in case. But anyway I
am currently working on the code, reading values from the games so I can prepare
Funny side note, a friend of mine, my former Le Mans trip buddy, is on the organizing team of the 90 year
ring anniversary, so he won't be joining me, making it a solo trek, again. And I know on driving back through
the night on Sunday to get home in time to be ready for work on Monday I'll be thinking "why am I doing this,
AGAIN"...

Attached Files



#5 M Needforspeed

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 02:41 PM

Roman,


after  a search, here the best I cld find about Lotus 49 TRUE :Meter:  and GENUINE :D   original dashboard,  quite at a good centered position. I didn't find any other period pic at such symmetric angle.
A good chance it has never been uploaded on the web, because it is from the JOE HONDA photographer book on the 49 1967 complete season.  .

  Shot done simply at the first public appearance of the car ( if we left Snetterton private test), Zandvoort 1967. First outing, first win, that 's the right dashboard you need !!!

I sized it at 1920  X 1080 . Tried to cut exactly at the edge extreme limits of the dash plate that coincides with a yellow line where the perspex joins the green body panels.

Color, BW and negative, maybe easier to enhance the gauges positions;

You will drive with an Off centered steering wheel . Great job, Roman, you have collected already a nice collection of spare parts.

Have a nice trip, but while I post, you are already shooting cars at Le Mans ! ...Toyota. Nooo, please don't stop at the last lap

Do you plan to built the wheel ?

I have ordered one steering of another GPL baby,  :shhh: but more on this when the thing is done.

Edited by M Needforspeed, 16 June 2017 - 03:46 PM.


#6 M Needforspeed

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 08:32 AM

our GPL Lotus dashboard in 1920X 1080

Some differences in the gauges numbers and infos on them
In RL, driver cld see the three tachos complete, in GPL the steering rim is masking a little the left tacho.
the left and right tachos shld be placed lower to the main RPM

But with the info GPLEA and others dashboard makers got at the time it was completed, a really great job they did !!

Edited by M Needforspeed, 17 June 2017 - 01:42 PM.


#7 sky

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:07 PM

Wow, great pic! I have seen the Joe Honda book series and have contemplated getting one, but so far none have
really got me "ep, I NEED that". I have checked the 917 / 512 and GT books. I personally am looking not so much
for references on the bodies but more for details, technical drawings, etc. In that regard the Haynes "Owner's"
manuals are usually better. For someone wanting to recreate a particular model at a specific race, the Joe Honda
books are great and I might add them to my archives (slowly starting to build a collection, mostly Porsche 917 re-
lated though (latest acquisition: Gordon Wingrove: the undercover story) at some point, but not right now.

As for steering wheel. Well, the T500RS Thrustmaster wheel will have to do for now. However, I intend to replace
the actual wheel at some point with their 599 Evo Alcantara wheel and a recreated Lotus 49 wheel as per this link
here: http://jacobengineer...ering-wheels-2/ (scroll a bit down or go to the Lotus wheels
section...) Pricing seems reasonable, too, considering what you get. It's not a real bargain since it costs more than
the T500RS (or what I paid for it anyway).... and eventually I will need to modify the base of that unit with a quick
release and also probably with a way to lead the electric connectors to the buttons through to the base - which is
not necessary for the '49 as it didn't have any buttons on the wheel anyway :). But I have ideas for that (XLR type
plugs).
Looking at the real Lotus dash it seems that the sizes of the instruments in the GPLEA cockpit are off by a bit. Not
having measured it in the GPLEA versions, but the 1:1 has an 80mm diameter tachometer and 52 mm diameter
pressure, temperature and ampere gauges.
Also in a way, I have sort of fixed myself on a later 49 cockpit without the Ampere gauge. That aside I still need to
find / buy a 52mm 30-110° temperature gauge. I have two of those in my ebay watchlist. One without markings
for water or oil temperature, most have "Water" on the bezel - which the Lotus didn't have.

That aside, I have been at Le Mans, safely returned at midnight today and back to work. What a race! I'm not going
to spoil anyone, but at some point in the race I was torn between cheering the underdog going for the win or for the
one doing the catchup as the sole survivor. I've spent the last two days mostly walking around the track. >20 km on
Saturday and >15 km yesterday :D
Plus on Saturday they had the "Road to Le Mans" race and afterwards you could walk through the team areas with
no extra tickets or pass (it was somewhere off the pits in a tenting area really) and could touch the cars, talk to the
mechanics and see them dismantle the battered cars, push them onto the trailers (or really into the trucks), gawp
at the engine and suspension details. AWESOME! I took tons of photos there - and of course in the museum as well,
where they had the Lotus, the Cooper, the Brabham and the BRM... It was amazing. Sadly you couldn't get as close
to the cars as I would have wanted, but still, I got my fix :)

One of the best LM weekends for me in my almost 10 year "career" (with 2 or so years of break). Oh and I stopped
by Paris again on the way to the track. I love that city, it's my instantaneous happy city. Place de la Concorde at 7am
on a Saturday morning, 5 or so cars and a few photographers putting up their tripods to an otherwise empty area in
the glorious light of a cloudless summer morning sky.... Sad to see some dimwit pull another attack there on Sunday
or today...

#8 sky

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:18 PM

As an aside, since I had massive issues with triggering the Arduino via USB, I have decided to go down another route.
Now I have added an Ethernet shield to my Arduino and am intending to send the data from the games to via network
since that is designed to handle this kind of load :).
So far I have managed to get the data from Project Cars - just because Assetto Corsa requires a handshake before
sending actual data :S. My initial tests with AC were ok, but I didn't manage the handshake somehow. Also I think that
most modern games use UDP for their shared memory parts anyway plus I think it is probably easier to implement it
for GPL (how, I have no idea yet :D) and that aside, I could also use it with a Raspberry Pi which is much much much
more powerful than the Arduino Mega with several Arduino Nanos attached via I2C bus (if necessary)... :). I'm just
struggling with the datatypes while programming. That's what has taken most of my time. The actual code is easy ...

/edit. Oh plus, I want to do the code all on Arduino side, so no external programm sending the data to it is necessary.
For Project Cars and probably also Dirt Rally this should be possible. Assetto Corsa needs some work, I think and
GPL is impossible without a seperate program or requires a plugin to be written (oh yeah, easy peasy lemon squeezy,
not).

Edited by sky, 19 June 2017 - 01:49 PM.


#9 M Needforspeed

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Posted 20 June 2017 - 03:54 PM

Roman, now that I have seen what Arduino electronic kits are used for, I  can understand roughly what you do.

  I was a little afraid when I looked at your link that my steering project cld be on the catalog !!! But fortunatly ( or infortunatly), was too late to cancel the order I passed to a friend, that will manufacture it in one sample only, and at a price not covering his time costs.As you can guess, the brand is very protective of its logos and steering specific shapes.

   The Lotus 49 at Zandy is good to control all the numbers printed on each gauge. On that matter, our GPL car has got some distance with realism police. The RPM Cosworth limit the first year being 9200, you have seen the tacho showed a max at  10000 rpm.Don't have those Haynes publishing. But I have seen the cover of the one on the Lotus 49 " owner guide ".Are they so manys ??? :D  . Do they content genuine period blueprints provided by the manufacturers ?
Joe Honda "books" won't replace drawings board, but the number of shots detailing the 67 F1 cars is amazing, if we compare with any other higher priced publications from the past, and probably in the future .Ask Pioujd how we wld have done otherwise to complete his race by race cars exact liveries .  Not as good, unless as you do by extrapolation, to get the exact dimensions of parts.  

From what you say, seems they put ropes around the cars at the museum, so you cldn't get all the pictures you need; I remember it was the same when I visited Donington museum, but on a convenient Tuesday morning in February, there was absolutely NO ONE on the silent alleys,  and I cld believe all along the visit I was Tom Wheatcroft heir , the new owner of all those cars....Fallen Angel I am ! The good side of the situation is I cld go over the ropes,and shot cockpits and various parts at selected GPL era cars at convenient angles..But I used my phone ( you are not the only to forgot some key instruments when going to Le Mans ) that was not very good at making nice pics ( 2 millions pixels only and a badly limited flash on a poor lighted ambient )
I suspect at least 3 of the 4 cars at Le Mans came straight from Donington. Bonnier Cooper, for sure, probably the BRM P 115 and the BT 24 .Isn't the Lotus 49, the Beaulieu museum chassis ?


Finally, I had a brief look at the Le Mans coverage, with the fight during final laps between the Corvette and the Aston Martin. Entertaining. great that you could walk all around the track; From the hills areas around the track, there seems it wasn't full of people, and plenty of space was left to the spectators.

  Porsche :seems  the all rounding number of a Twentieth  victory is already on the pipeline !

Edited by M Needforspeed, 21 June 2017 - 04:41 PM.


#10 sky

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Posted 21 June 2017 - 01:49 PM

Michel, some of the Haynes' books contain blueprints. But if I'm honest, they could have more than they have. If I could
get all the blueprints of a car, I would! I currently have 7 Haynes' manuals: Ford GT40, Ferrari 250 GTO, Ferrari 312T,
Ferrari 512, Porsche 917, Lotus 49, McLaren M23. I think the GT40 is the best, with the 49 a close 2nd... There's a shop
on Amazon.co.uk (BOOKS something) that offeres them for a lot less than normal (~18-20€ per book) and shipping is
usually pretty fast (~1 week).
The Joe Honda books (the old ones) are out of print with no reprints coming from what I hear. I think the entire series
might be end of life, so grab them while you can.

Cars at Le Mans, see the attached pics taken with my phone. To be honest, I didn't read any of the signs next to the
cars in the museum, so I don't know where the cars came from :). Some are of the Road to Le Mans race cars - just
o you see how close you could get to them :).

Pic 1203 is the winning car of that race, I think. Pics of the 24h race have been taken with my actual camera. But I
have not yet downloaded them. I've also used it to get detail shots of the '67 cars and other exhibits from the museum.
For instance they had a GT40 MKIV there (the red car, #1).

/edit
it seems the forum resizes the pics to 1200x900 max.. meh I have uploaded the raw sizes..

Attached Files


Edited by sky, 21 June 2017 - 01:55 PM.


#11 M Needforspeed

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 11:12 AM

I missed the visit to the Andretti / Bianchi MK IV chassis J7 at the Shelby museum in Boulder, Colorado, when I stayed two days at this charming quiet city in 2013, and now I am missing the winner car ! Finally, how they cld have marked the 50 th anniversary without such a car. Roman, you know where the four 1/12 scales jewels are...And you have been lucky to have seen one of the most iconic ever prototype chassis to have raced at Le Mans .Strangely, they fitted the Chassis J 7 with Good Year, but the car raced with Firestone at Le Mans, its only race.

   Hope with your camera you cld get nevertheless very detailed features/ special angled views of the F1s 67.

About the Joe Honda , at the moment, I have the Lotus 49 and those ( real sized for a 19' screen) .You can see some obsessives wonders,  I didn 't want to miss this 50 number; A "big" budget has gone with those, I am underfinanced for the others JH jewels, that must be as great !

sometimes, I wld think that 's our GPL favorite year that put Joe Honda under pressure to make his treasures public

Edited by M Needforspeed, 26 June 2017 - 12:17 PM.


#12 sky

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 12:13 PM

Michel, I have eyeballed most of them but could not bring myself to buy just one of them yet. Because my expectations
were different. But I think I will try and get these, knowing now that they are out of print. I didn't know that a few months
ago, when I saw them at the booths at the Techno Classica fair in Essen.

Besides, I had to chuckle when I saw that my trip to Le Mans is actually slightly shorter than yours. And I have to cross
through three countries in total, while you can stay within the same country from start to finish. Since this exhibit is going
for another month at least, I'd probably recommend going there as I think during the normal - non-race days - you will
probably have the museum to yourself. And since you're French, maybe you can talk the museum wardens to let you
get closer to the cars. I didn't see any wardens while there. They were only lurking around the entrance gates / security
check points. Entry this year was from the rear (the road between track and museum and not through the entrance for
the cafe / boutique. Which reminds me, I need to order the shirts for this and last year's race to put into my collection. I
couldn't be bothered to wait in line for an eternity to get those either year. Last year they were sold out just before the
end of the race. Not this time, since I guess, the design didn't appeal (it's bland really)....

On the #1 car - well I was hoping to get closer to it, but what you see in my picture is about the closest you could get
to it. It was roped off at a distance. To the right, from just about where I stood, there was a display of some special
driving seat / mechanism. I don't remember the driver, but it was someone who basically had no arms and legs or
something like that, but who had a modified car and participated in LM anyway. And to the left of the MK IV there was
another car.. I'd say the MK IV was the distant-most car in the entire exhibition. :(
You are lucky in that you have all 4 of the 1/12 models. I would love to have a mould of the bodies to use on the
Trumpeter GT40 chassis. I have prepared a 3D model from Assetto Corsa of the GT40 MK1 body which should fit
the MK2 chassis ... maybe one day ;)


If you decide to go, maybe go through Clermont and take in the old track? I keep wanting to go through both Rouen
or Reims either on the way to Le Mans or on the way back. But since I basically do a 40hr weekend at best, I keep
not doing it. One of these days!
Plus I want to visit southern France again, Grasse, Carcassone, etc... so I might swing by your neck of the woods.
Hmm maybe later this summer?

#13 M Needforspeed

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 12:16 PM

Roman,

meanwhile, just edited a little my post with more precise infos

Edited by M Needforspeed, 26 June 2017 - 12:18 PM.


#14 sky

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 12:31 PM

I would love to think that, too. But maybe it's more related to Mr. Hiro producing his kits and asking Joe to provide
the reference images for the models. As you know, so far they have done the 1/12 312 Ferrari, the T1G Eagle and
most versions of the 330 P4 and the 412 P. Even if their 330 P4 seems to be based around the Glickenhaus car. I
would love the Honda RA300 or RA273 as well, as maybe a GT40 MK1, 2 or 4 (2 having been done by someone
else - Trumpeter). But really, I think it is one of the best years in motorracing history - the big Ford - Ferrari war at
Le Mans and the last pre-sponsor Formula 1 season.

#15 M Needforspeed

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 12:40 PM

Yes , they certainly did as you think;

What a pity those mags came out when ours GPL modders ( you are one )  had already completed all the F1 67 and WSC 67 carsets ! But thks to those, there is certainly room for future improvements in the WSC carset race by race details, and hope thoses books will be useful .they wait for that !

If you plan to visit carcassonne, or have a  stay in my city, just give me the dates; if I am here, because I don't have any plan for my summer holidays ( I maybe there, i maybe faraway) , just come visit me.

If you come with your tools, maybe you can mould the MK IV body. Then, it will need some adjustment, as the rear spoiler that is correct for the two Hoolman and Moody cars , but wrong for the two Shelby .For the tyres, that 's the opposite : I had to change the decals for H and Moodys cars, as they raced Firestones, GMP put Good Years on alls .
   Maybe GMP guys went to Boulder, and where happy with Good year tyres,and the car bodyshape, without questionning to much the history. Anyway, Gurney car has well the extra roof for his head !

Edited by M Needforspeed, 27 June 2017 - 04:56 PM.