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Bytesize T5-36 node


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#1 MECH

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 08:43 AM

Does anybody know how much bytes a T5 subtype 36 node takes?

Any more info on the sizes of nodes is welcome too  :)

With RSC down much info on editing isn't available atm  :rolleyes:

Cheers,

Martin


#2 Bernd Nowak

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 01:15 PM

I can't help at the moment but we're working hard to fill in the information into the wiki. Everyone is welcome to add information or to give hints what should be included :)

#3 MECH

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 01:27 PM

Thx Bernd,

Pirenzo pointed me to Guru's site with all the in's about the techy stuff.

Had seen it in the past just completely forgot about it  :)

Guru's stuff

Cheers,

Martin


#4 Bernd Nowak

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 01:30 AM

I have searched the site from Guru (because we're transfering it to the wiki) but where did you find the information which helped you ?

Maybe we missed something ? :)

#5 MECH

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 02:48 AM

View PostBernd Nowak, on Apr 22 2009, 09:30 AM, said:

I have searched the site from Guru (because we're transfering it to the wiki) but where did you find the information which helped you ?

Maybe we missed something ? :)

Look under Filespecs -> 3DO Files -> Primitives (Link: Primitives 3DO)
There you'll find a listing of all nodes (well most of them ;) ) with the values for the node types.

In my case the T5-36 node which is a 005-24 in Hex has the following values:
1 set of 4 bytes containing the value 5 which is the node type
2 set of 4 bytes containing the offset from the PRIM tree
3 set of 4 bytes for the subtype is 24 (Hex) = 36 (Dec)
4 set of 4 bytes for an integer (0)?
5 set of 4 bytes for an integer (4)?

5 x 4bytes gives a value of 20bytes length for a T5-36 node.

The usage of Hex and Dec within the 3do structure confuses the heck out of me  :rolleyes:

Cheers,

Martin


#6 CJM

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 04:56 PM

View PostMECH, on Apr 22 2009, 12:48 AM, said:

View PostBernd Nowak, on Apr 22 2009, 09:30 AM, said:

I have searched the site from Guru (because we're transfering it to the wiki) but where did you find the information which helped you ?

Maybe we missed something ? :)

Look under Filespecs -> 3DO Files -> Primitives (Link: Primitives 3DO)
There you'll find a listing of all nodes (well most of them ;) ) with the values for the node types.

In my case the T5-36 node which is a 005-24 in Hex has the following values:
1 set of 4 bytes containing the value 5 which is the node type
2 set of 4 bytes containing the offset from the PRIM tree
3 set of 4 bytes for the subtype is 24 (Hex) = 36 (Dec)
4 set of 4 bytes for an integer (0)?
5 set of 4 bytes for an integer (4)?

5 x 4bytes gives a value of 20bytes length for a T5-36 node.

The usage of Hex and Dec within the 3do structure confuses the heck out of me  :rolleyes:
The first integer is the mip number.  It is used to point to a mip in the ai or driver's 3dos.  The car skin, for instance, is almost always mip # 0.
The second integer is for display class.
Note that this node is like a T5-5 node, the difference is that it (the T5-36) gets a mip from the ai (or driver) 3dos while the T5-5 gets a mip from the main 3do STRN table.

#7 MECH

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 12:23 AM

View PostCJM, on Apr 23 2009, 12:56 AM, said:

The first integer is the mip number.  It is used to point to a mip in the ai or driver's 3dos.  The car skin, for instance, is almost always mip # 0.
The second integer is for display class.
Note that this node is like a T5-5 node, the difference is that it (the T5-36) gets a mip from the ai (or driver) 3dos while the T5-5 gets a mip from the main 3do STRN table.

Thx, i knew how this worked but didn't have the integer info at hand.
So the info is now complete  :thumbup:

While at it. The external called mips aren't displayed while viewing in 3doed  :rolleyes:
And i need to extend a lot of mips on this car (see picture, don't worry it's a distant view not the up close viewed car  :P )
Getting the mip mapping correct is a bit of a drag.
Got any tips to see it quicker then trial and error?

Attached Files


Cheers,

Martin


#8 Bernd Nowak

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 02:30 AM

Have you tried to view it in 3DSimEd ? (http://www.sim-garage.co.uk/) It's the recent version of 3DoEd.

#9 MECH

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 02:55 AM

View PostBernd Nowak, on Apr 23 2009, 10:30 AM, said:

Have you tried to view it in 3DSimEd ? (http://www.sim-garage.co.uk/) It's the recent version of 3DoEd.

Yes, but it has the same flaw no mipmapping.
And i can't apply materials (or couldn't find a howto)
Besides there's no GPL 3do export  :rolleyes:
I am willing to pay for the program but not if i'm not 100% certain that it can do what i want.  ;)

Attached Files


Cheers,

Martin


#10 Bernd Nowak

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 03:08 AM

I have send an email to Dave Noonan and have said basically the same. If I buy it, some nice features in it, I want GPL Export. He send me an answer that he will look into it. Luis, from SRMZ, has sent him the same email and I would encourage you to send him an email too to reenable GPL export and I would maybe attach the 3DO with the mip mapping problem. As long as we don't ask he will not do anything for us I feel.

Compared to 3DoEd there are some nice features in the program. I'm to stupid to attach different  mips to the different sides of a cube but haven't tried to hard because I can't export it.

#11 MECH

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 03:48 AM

View PostBernd Nowak, on Apr 23 2009, 11:08 AM, said:

I have send an email to Dave Noonan and have said basically the same. If I buy it, some nice features in it, I want GPL Export. He send me an answer that he will look into it. Luis, from SRMZ, has sent him the same email and I would encourage you to send him an email too to reenable GPL export and I would maybe attach the 3DO with the mip mapping problem. As long as we don't ask he will not do anything for us I feel.

Compared to 3DoEd there are some nice features in the program. I'm to stupid to attach different  mips to the different sides of a cube but haven't tried to hard because I can't export it.

I've send him an e-mail as well  :)

FYI - Although it can read 3do's with normal mip mapping it can't do so with mips called from ai driver 3do objects.

Attached Files


Cheers,

Martin


#12 CJM

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 04:02 AM

View PostMECH, on Apr 23 2009, 01:48 AM, said:

View PostBernd Nowak, on Apr 23 2009, 11:08 AM, said:

I have send an email to Dave Noonan and have said basically the same. If I buy it, some nice features in it, I want GPL Export. He send me an answer that he will look into it. Luis, from SRMZ, has sent him the same email and I would encourage you to send him an email too to reenable GPL export and I would maybe attach the 3DO with the mip mapping problem. As long as we don't ask he will not do anything for us I feel.

Compared to 3DoEd there are some nice features in the program. I'm to stupid to attach different  mips to the different sides of a cube but haven't tried to hard because I can't export it.

I've send him an e-mail as well  :)

FYI - Although it can read 3do's with normal mip mapping it can't do so with mips called from ai driver 3do objects.

You can try changing the T5-36 to a T5-5; it is very easy with a hex editor.  Then add a mip name to the STRN table and have the T5 point to it.  In theory you should now be able to see the painted polygon in 3DoEd or in GPLTrackEditor.  If you use GPLTrackEditor you should (in theory) be able to change the mapping on the fly, so to speak.  When finished just hex edit the T5 back to a subtype 36 and give it the correct mip number to call.  You should be able to do this with any T5 that calls out for a mip; subtract 31 from the subtype and you have a T5 that calls to the STRN table.  For example, change T5-32 to T5-1, change T5-44 to T5-13, etc.

#13 MECH

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 04:33 AM

View PostCJM, on Apr 23 2009, 12:02 PM, said:

You can try changing the T5-36 to a T5-5; it is very easy with a hex editor.  Then add a mip name to the STRN table and have the T5 point to it.  In theory you should now be able to see the painted polygon in 3DoEd or in GPLTrackEditor.  If you use GPLTrackEditor you should (in theory) be able to change the mapping on the fly, so to speak.  When finished just hex edit the T5 back to a subtype 36 and give it the correct mip number to call.  You should be able to do this with any T5 that calls out for a mip; subtract 31 from the subtype and you have a T5 that calls to the STRN table.  For example, change T5-32 to T5-1, change T5-44 to T5-13, etc.

Mmmh, yes that might be possible but a converted car from ase has a lot of separate nodes.
And lod's are even worse due to the limited polygon exports the model gets distorted.
Not a tiny task if you get my point  ;)

3doSimed has some potential though.
I've played with it a bit and you can very easily add some vertices and change the mip mapping to match the polygon  :cool:
I've used the converted 3do that has been cleaned and didn't have normals added (GPLTrackeditor can't handle those so not an option. 3doEd can but doesn't have the option to add vertices  :rolleyes:  )
If 3doSimEd had GPLexport functionality then i could export the changed model and add normals, shine ai mapping after.

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Edited by MECH, 23 April 2009 - 04:38 AM.

Cheers,

Martin


#14 MECH

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 09:48 AM

I'm trying to rotate a bunch of mips in one go with help of the position/rotation T-D node (0xD)
However when i use that node all polygons that are in this node become invisible  :confused:
They show up in GPLTrackeditor but not in game..
I thought the lotus uses the rotation node but now i'm doubtfull if GPL can handle such a node?

Cheers,

Martin


#15 CJM

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Posted 21 June 2009 - 03:54 PM

View PostMECH, on Jun 14 2009, 06:48 AM, said:

I'm trying to rotate a bunch of mips in one go with help of the position/rotation T-D node (0xD)
However when i use that node all polygons that are in this node become invisible  :confused:
They show up in GPLTrackeditor but not in game..
I thought the lotus uses the rotation node but now i'm doubtfull if GPL can handle such a node?
I use the T-D node to position 3do sub objects (eg. wings, struts, exhaust pipes, etc.) in the main car 3do.  Usually, it is easier to build these as a separate 3do, particularly if I need more than one, and then place them on the car using a translation and/or rotation along/about the X, Y, and Z axes.  The translation will be displayed in GPLTrackeditor but the rotation will not.  Use 3DOed to see both the translation and rotation.  Also, there are three types of nodes that appear to do the translation/rotation: T-D, T-13, and T-16 (flavor=22 decimal).  I am not sure what the differences between them are, and I use T-D and T-13 interchangeably.

#16 MECH

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 11:50 AM

View PostCJM, on Jun 21 2009, 11:54 PM, said:

I use the T-D node to position 3do sub objects (eg. wings, struts, exhaust pipes, etc.) in the main car 3do.  Usually, it is easier to build these as a separate 3do, particularly if I need more than one, and then place them on the car using a translation and/or rotation along/about the X, Y, and Z axes.  The translation will be displayed in GPLTrackeditor but the rotation will not.  Use 3DOed to see both the translation and rotation.  Also, there are three types of nodes that appear to do the translation/rotation: T-D, T-13, and T-16 (flavor=22 decimal).  I am not sure what the differences between them are, and I use T-D and T-13 interchangeably.

Thx for the info CJM  :thumbup:

I managed to use a T-D for rotating a bunch of nodes in a car lod.
that worked ok (GPLTrackeditor displays the rotation in degrees while in game you need to use radiants, so pi gives 180 deg.  :rolleyes:  )
Before that i tried to rotate the driver shoulder part which didn't work.
All mips behind the T-D node become invisible.
So i guess GPL is a bit picky in that area  :think:

Will have a look if maybe the T-13 or T-16 does the trick..

Cheers,

Martin


#17 MECH

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 02:55 PM

While editing the suspension of a car i need to add some vertices (7 in total which is 28 bytes) to the multiflavor 23 node.
I've tried to realize this by adding a T4 multinode with 5 branches (=28 bytes) copying the T20 & T23 nodes to the 5th branch and replacing the multinode bytes with the vertices.
Then i altered the number of vertices in the T-23 from a0 to 11 (=+7) but somehow i keep messing up the 3do.

Help!  :rolleyes: I there any easy way to do this without corrupting the 3do?

Cheers,

Martin


#18 MECH

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 12:21 PM

Problem solved  :)

Replacing the flavour 23 with a multinode T-4 with enough branches and hexediting it back to a multiflavor 23 did the trick.

Cheers,

Martin